Distro comparison

Tue Oct 21 09:21:23 EDT 2003

hi.  it's pretty cool to see all these opinions.  i was a little worried
that it was going to become a redhat bashing fest.  for whatever it's
worth, i downloaded http://fedora.redhat.com/download/ and it seems
pretty cool for a desktop / laptop.  free too.  i like that model,
considering i purchased the boxed redhat 8 and 9.  i can't argue the
specs with big dogs like you but have you had a chance to play with it? 
(for the rare gui lover who reads the list it looks incredible, my
mickeysoft friends drool.  they're almost converted.  one more big
virus?) i can say from a noob desktop point of view it was way easier to
use than slackware 9 and debian 3.0r1.

at the next meeting i think it would be fun to maybe swap some cds.  i
hate so say i like redhat the best when i've never tried suse or
mandrake.  anybody want to trade some distros?  i can bring some
copies...  eric.

On Tue, 2003-10-21 at 08:10, David Kramer wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 October 2003 02:37, Derek Martin wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 04:22:18PM -0400, David Kramer wrote:
> > > > Can I ask what exactly you dislike about Red Hat? The most common
> > > > complaint I hear is dependency issues, but up2date and apt4rpm have
> > > > all but eliminated that concern.
> > >
> > > - The mangling of KDE and Gnome to the point that the two companies are
> > > now on fighting terms.
> >
> > Which two companies are you referring to?
> 
> Sorry.  KDE and RH.
> 
> > As for "mangling" Gnome and KDE, about all they did was change the
> > default themes and some settings.  So?  Change 'em back.  Have they
> > actually changed anything which prevents either desktop system from
> > working as it does with KDE or Gnome defaults?  (This is not just a
> > rhetorical question.)
> 
> I found on my RH9 install that even going to the default theme left some 
> images redhatized.
> 
> And I believe they did change some programs slighly too, but I can't 
> remember the details.
> 
> > Realistically, the KDE and Gnome people have no legitimate gripe here.
> > KDE and Gnome are both GPL software packages, and Red Hat has the
> > right to do whatever they want to it, guaranteed to them by the
> > projects' own licenses, so long as they release the source code to
> > their changes.  If a project doesn't want that, they should change
> > their license.
> 
> Whether KDE and Trolltech have legitemate gripes or not I don't know, but I 
> know that I do.  The icons are childish and too similar to each other to 
> instantly indicate what they represent.
> 
> > This happens all the time, unfortunately, due to dependency issues.
> > But the point there is that 7.3 is vastly out of date.  You should not
> > expect to be able to run new software on such old systems, at least
> 
> Well, I don't know that a year and a half is "vastly out of date", but I 
> _am_ installing a newer OS, so I've admitted defeat there.
> 
> However, third parties have successfully created a way to upgrade 7.3 to the 
> latest KDE, so there are no library restrictions, just two companies not 
> playing nice anymore.
> 
> > > - Their refusal to put programs on their distro that MPAA/RIAA might
> > > maybe kinda sorta say is a bad thing one day
> >
> > Can you name one?  (This is also not just a rhetorical question...  If
> > there's a legitimate issue here, I may rethink my own ideas about
> > distros.)
> >
> > The mp3 player issue has nothing to do with the MPAA or RIAA.  It has
> > everything to do with the fact that the MP3 coding/decoding algorithm is
> > patented, and distributing it or using it requires a (paid) licence.
> > Red Hat does not want to pay, and does not want to put its customers
> > at legal risk.  This may be inconvenient, but frankly it's the right
> > decision.  For now, the patent holders have said they won't pursue
> > those who use mp3-related technology in free players, but there's
> > nothing to stop them from changing their mind tomorrow...
> 
> ... and retroactively suing for past distribution?
> 
> > > - The new Fedora Project model scares me.  I don't know what it will do
> > > to the quality and consistency of the releases.
> >
> > Out of everything you've listed, this seems to be the only legitimate
> > gripe.  But I'll point out that you're still running 7.3, and RH9 is
> > available, and will be supported for some time yet.  In that time, you
> > should have plenty of time to determine the usability of future
> > releases of Fedora.  There's no point in complaining about the quality
> > of software that doesn't even exist yet...
> 
> Yes, RH9 is out there, and suffers from the aforementioned problems, whether 
> you think of them as legitimate or not.  But Red Hat's decision to move to 
> a model where releases become unsupported so soon means that before long I 
> will be in the same boat.
> 
> > > - The demotion of the personal user from their lifeblood to a vast
> > > fleet of testers for their *real* release, as a side effect of the
> > > above
> >
> > Red Hat is a company in business to make money.  They MUST make
> > decisions on that basis, or there will cease to be a Red Hat.  You may
> > not agree with their changes, but I'd rather have Red Hat around than
> > not.  They've done much for the community, and I've no reason to
> > think that won't continue.
> 
> I couldn't agree more. But I think abandoning the personal user is bad 
> business for them, because it's the geeks getting hired at companies that 
> are bringing Red Hat into corporate America.  You just aren't going to see 
> a huge percentage of CEO's saying "We need Red Hat Linux here" without the 
> geeks pushing for it and making a case for it.  And if they don't have 
> familiarity with it, they're not going to do that.
> 
> > You seem to be suggesting that this is a shift in philosophies which
> > you find personally offensive, where in reality it is nothing but a
> > business decision, made to help ensure their continued existence.
> 
> Not offensive, I'm just not sure that the release will have the same 
> consistency and quality without paid Red Hat employees organizing and 
> testing.
> 
> > > - Their graphical tools to maintain your box are largely undocumented
> >
> > Well, this might be an issue, but as a long-time professional
> > sysadmin, my opinion (prejudice) is that you shouldn't rely on them
> > anyway.  If you want that, run Windows.
> 
> 99 percent of the time, I would much rather edit a text file.  But some of 
> them, like X11 config, are very hard to do and can cause hardware problems 
> if done incorrectly.  I agree this is not a showstopper though.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> DDDD   David Kramer         david at thekramers.net       http://thekramers.net
> DK KD  
> DKK D  "I've already explained this once, but repetition is
> DK KD  the very soul of the net."             
> DDDD                                         (from the alt.config newsgroup)
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